This is the fifth post in a 14-week study. More information and resources can be found here.
A quick note to those of y’all who are not participants:
– Please read along as we go through the study chapter by chapter, and contemplate the questions we’ll be tackling. It’s gonna be good!
– We will be utilizing the comment section as a forum for discussion for the participants only. I respectfully ask – if you are not participating – that you refrain from commenting on the Reason for God posts, simply to help keep things well… simple.
– We have an incredible group of women representing various ages, faith backgrounds and life experiences – I hope you’ll check out all they have to say.
It is my prayer that the participants, as well as those of y’all who will be reading along, will contemplate your own faith and understanding of God in a new, and more purposeful way.
“Many people who take an intellectual stand against Christianity do so against a background of personal disappointment with Christians and churches.” (p.53). According to Keller, your opinion of Christianity is largely influenced by your experiences – positive or negative – with the church and/or Christians.
Keller lays out three issues that undermine people’s belief in Christianity: “First, there is the issue of Christians’ glaring character flaws… Second, there is the issue of war and violence… Third, there is the issue of fanaticism.”
Character Flaws
Keller does not dance around the obvious – the average Christian has many flaws and so do their leaders. In fact, he shares a belief similar to the average non-religious person: “Church officials seem to at least (if not more) corrupt than leaders in the world at large.”
Keller goes on to explain that the Bible teaches the exact same thing. God is the Giver of “every good and perfect gift” (James 1:17) and those gifts are spread over all humanity – whether Christian or not. “A central message of the Bible is that we can only have a relationship with God by sheer grace. Our moral efforts are too feeble and falsely motivated to ever merit salvation.” (p.54) Christianity is a perfect religion for the broken not a broken religion for the perfect.
“The church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints.” (p.55)
Those who are broken physically, morally, spiritually or mentally are more likely to be at the end of themselves – and therefore more likely to recognize their deep need for a Savior. And so, we should not be surprised when the average church congregation is made up of broken people.
Religion and Violence
Keller begins by asking the question, “Doesn’t orthodox religion lead inevitably to violence?” (p.56) He then proceeds to give examples of religious movements and societies that seem to prove the point: the Inquisition, African slave trade, Japanese influence by Shintoism and Buddhism, Hindu nationalism and Radical Islam. “All this evidence seems to indicate that religion aggravates human differences until they boil over into war, violence, and the oppression of minorities.” (p.56)
Keller gives examples of why that argument against religion flies in the face of reality. From Stalin to Mao to Pol Pot, a forced lack of religion has also caused innumerable acts of violence, murder and subjugation of fellow humans.
“We can only conclude that there is some violent impulse so deeply rooted in the human heart that it expresses itself regardless of what the beliefs of a particular society might be — whether socialist or capitalist, whether religion or irreligious, whether individualistic or hierarchical.” (p.57)
Fanaticism
“Perhaps the biggest deterrent to Christianity for the average person today is not so much violence and warfare but the shadow of fanaticisim.” (p. 57) Many have witnesses the transformation of a former nonbeliever into a believer and watched as they seemed to go from ‘normal’ to the deep end of belief. “When arguing for the truth of their faith they [believer] often appear intolerant and self-righteous.” (p. 58)
Keller argues that what people want is a moral equivalent of a self-help program — neither too hot (fanatical) or too cold (nominal Christian). He says that by insisting on the lukewarm center, you instead get the fanaticism you are trying to avoid. When someone is completely surrendered to Christ they realize that they are saved only by the grace of God, and are brought to their knees in humility by that fact. “What strikes us as overly fanatical is actually a failure to be fully committed to Christ and his gospel.” (p.59)
The Biblical Critique of Religion
The Old Testament prophets, and Jesus himself, were overtly critical of the religious fanatics. They knew, based on the sinful nature of man, that even the God-given law could and would be corrupted. “He [Jesus] condemned in white-hot language their [fanatics] legalism, self-righteousness, bigotry, and love of wealth and power.” (p.60)
In fact, Jesus would inevitably be turned over to Pilate for crucifixion by the very religious leaders He had chastised repeatedly for fanaticism. “The tendency of religious people, however, is to use spiritual and ethical observance as a lever to gain power over others and over God…” (p.61)
Our Savior and the prophets speak of true faith as concern for those less fortunate, not ignoring social justice or gaining power. Though the church has indeed been responsible for power grabs and self-righteous behavior, Keller tells us that the standards by which society is gauging the church actually come from the church – the very same institution they are criticizing. “The shortcomings of the church can be understood historically as the imperfect adoption and practice of the principles oft the Christian gospel.” (p. 63)
So, what should be done in light of the church’s failure? Should there be an abandonment of the Christian faith? Absolutely not. Keller says, “Instead we should move to a fuller and deeper grasp of what Christianity is.” (p. 63)
Justice in Jesus’ Name
While Christianity must bear responsibility for the African slave trade, it was the awakening of Christians to the absolute horror of lifelong, race-based slavery and its direct conflict with God’s Word that brought slavery to an end. In fact, historians, using a moral relativism of today’s intellectual communities, find it difficult to explain why the Abolitionists were willing to chance economic ruin to free the slaves. The answer was that, “Slavery was abolished because it was wrong, and Christians were the leaders in saying so. Christianity’s self-correcting apparatus, it’s critique of religiously supported acts of injustice, had asserted itself.” (p. 65)
The martyrs who have died to place themselves at odds with the dominant political thought of the day, from Nazi Germany to the American Civil Rights movement died as a result of realizing their higher calling from Christianity not apart from it. “When people have done injustice in the name of Christ they are not being true to the spirit of the one who himself died as a victim of injustice and who called for the forgiveness of his enemies. When people give their lives to liberate others as Jesus did, they are realizing the true Christianity…” (p. 69)
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” — John 13:34-35
Question: What does your church look like? A hospital for the sick? Or a museum for the saints? What do you imagine a church that is truly pleasing to Jesus would look like?
My response: Ouch. I’d never considered the “church” on these terms – as a hospital for sinners. If I really inspect my actions, I’d have to admit a tendency to be attracted to churches that are filled with people that *look* like me, both physically and spiritually. Upon reflection I recognize now how this must grieve the heart of God. He calls us to “Go and make disciples of all the earth…” and our churches should look more like this. But often we fail by choosing to stay in our nice little comfy place, surrounded by those who look like us, act like us and worship like us… and we try to serve and “go” from there. He wants the church to represent a cross-section of humanity: the hurting, the broken, the suffering, being loved on and supported by more mature, humble, servant-hearted Christians. All for His glory.
This resonates even more with me as we have just moved and so been on the dreaded church hunt, just trying to find a place where we feel the Lord wants to use us and grow us. Being in a huge metropolitan area – smack-dab in the middle of the Bible belt – has given us a ridiculous amount of options, from the super-mega to the teeny tiny. Before moving here were listened to sermons on podcast from two greatly-respected and highly-attended churches in the area. We sort of assumed we’d try them both, and choose the one we felt led to. But God had other plans. We went to both and felt like neither was the one. By a series of events that only God could orchestrate – Asher’s new orthodontist mentioning a church that I later looked up online and realized I’d listened to this pastor speak as a guest (at one of my favorite podcast pastor’s church) who had such an incredible testimony that I later recounted it to Chris – we believe we have found our new church home. We attended for the first time on Mother’s Day and we get more excited each time we visit. It’s a little church led by an Iranian-born, American-raised pastor with a passion for Jesus like I’ve rarely witnessed. And just about every walk of life is represented in the congregation. And we can’t wait to see what God has for us there. His plans are so much better than ours.
Here is the button for the participants who will be linking up to the study. Grab the code, paste it into your Reason for God post and link up below.
I thought I typed a comment and it disappeared. Bare with me…
Stefanie, I appreciated your response. I’ve heard the analogy about the church being like a hospital before, but never considered it to be a museum for saints. For years, I’m actually used the hospital analogy. Sadly, I think I was using it as an excuse for all the poor behavior easily seen it others that should know better. Stefanie’s answer gave me all sorts of different perspective.
I stopped to ask, was I thinking of this analogy only in regards to our worship services? Sadly, maybe. I think the church that I’m part of now act as a hospital for the sick. They feed the poor, go out of their way to help others even on other islands, they reach out in too many ways to list. The question for me right now is am I acting like a nurse or abusing my status as patient, only expecting to be filled up with my weekly antibiotic? Much to think and pray about. Thank you again Stefanie!
“The question for me right now is am I acting like a nurse or abusing my status as patient, only expecting to be filled up with my weekly antibiotic? “…interesting thought, brandi!
Brandi, such a good point! We hear all the time that people come to church to ‘be filled up,’ but that is not the purpose of church.
We have the Bible at our fingertips, and that is how we are ‘filled up.’
“We have the Bible at our fingertips, and that is how we are ‘filled up.’”
Now that is some truth, my sister!
Loved hearing your perspective, Brandi. I would have never considered how one might use this idea of being a ‘patient’ as a crutch.
Praying that God gives you clarity on this subject!
The question for me right now is am I acting like a nurse or abusing my status as patient, only expecting to be filled up with my weekly antibiotic?
This is a fascinating take on it and one I totally relate with! I’ve heard the hospital/museum thing in our current church and thought about how TRUE it is. I wish my heart would always remember it, but dang the prone to wander of it.
I am so very grateful for my church as it is truly a place where the broken and hurting can feel welcome…because we are all broken and hurting in some ways on some days. I have learned more about grace at this church than any other. We walked in the door and they just started loving on us, expecting nothing in return…and, as a result, it makes me want to love on people more, too! The people in my church humbly love others out of the outflow of their deep love for Christ…not as works righteousness, not to fill seats, not to recruit you to serve in their ministries…but simply because they know the dark depths of their own sin and the love of a great God who rescued them from the wrath they deserved. Such knowledge leads to love.
A church that is pleasing to Jesus…this question makes me think of the story of Martha and Mary. I think a church pleasing to Jesus would be at His feet in worship, love and learning as the priority…and then act in grace and love to those around us as a result of spending time with Him and being filled by Him. As I think in general terms of the “church” it calls to mind a friend of mine who does not attend the same physical church as I…at a time when I shared some of the darkness of my heart with her, she simply cried with me and then pointed me to Christ. I think this is how God wants us to love our brothers and sisters…weep together over sin (as opposed to judging) and also rejoice together that we have victory in Christ!
I wrote that and then realized we really don’t have to say, “I think a church pleasing to Christ would be…” Thank God He has given us His Word so that we may know EXACTLY what is pleasing to Him. No guessing to try to please a capricious and changing god.
Tish, I wanna come to your church 🙂
I agree with Connie! I want to come to this church!
You are all welcome!
What a huge blessing to have found such a safe church ‘home’ – to be loved and to love others.
Wow, this was another chapter packed with good stuff! I really enjoyed reading it…but I am truly convicted by the question. It has caused me to evaluate why I’m doing this study anyway, which is to draw closer to God by knowing His character better, to have an answer for my faith and beliefs and to get rid of my own character traits and habits which don’t line up with Scripture. Having said that, I’m talkin’ to me in this response!
The only place we will find an entire body of joyful, righteous, sacrificial, obedient, generous people is Heaven, and as long as we enter churches believing that’s what we’ll find, we will continue to be disillusioned.
We are saved only by the grace of God, pardoned by the blood of Jesus Christ shed for our sin. I love what Keller says, “This means, though, that the church will be filled with immature and broken people who still have a long way to go emotionally, morally and spiritually.” This side of Heaven we are imperfect. Which means the church is made up of selfish, imperfect human beings at various stages of growth in their relationship with Christ. We should expect to find the brokenhearted, lonely and needy within our churches. Maybe the problem is that some churchgoers recognize they are needy and some do not?
Church is not junior high. Perhaps the true test of a body is if we had an honest view from the outside looking in, would we want to enter? Would we see a body of people who lift one another up or a body of folks exercising power over others? “The Swiss theologian John Calvin, in his commentaries on the Hebrew prophets, says that God so identifies with the poor that their cries express divine pain. The Bible teaches us that our treatment of them equals our treatment of God.”
Still speaking to me!
So, my vision of a church truly pleasing to Jesus?
*people at various stages of growth, but all moving toward Jesus
*people sharing the work of God, for God
*people who spend much time in prayer
*people united for Christ, not divided for self
*people who preach, teach and live out the Gospel
*people who enjoy sweet fellowship
*people who recognize we are saved solely by God’s grace
*people who treat others with humility
*people who realize that no person or gift is more important than another
*people with joyful hearts, just because God is God
*people who live humbly for self and generously for God
Lord, please start the change in me!
Keller’s quote you mentioned really struck a chord with me, too. And your last statement…yes, me, too!
I was thinking the exact same thing, tish.
Really beautifully said, Connie.
I know this wasn’t an easy week for you, but clearly you dug in and the Holy Spirit provided some serious wisdom! Loved this thought of yours: “The only place we will find an entire body of joyful, righteous, sacrificial, obedient, generous people is Heaven, and as long as we enter churches believing that’s what we’ll find, we will continue to be disillusioned.”
“The only place we will find an entire body of joyful, righteous, sacrificial, obedient, generous people is Heaven, and as long as we enter churches believing that’s what we’ll find, we will continue to be disillusioned.” I really liked this!!
Because my husband is in the military, we have the opportunity to move every 2-3 years and along with that comes being apart of many churches. We have been blessed in each place we have lived with a church family and Christian fellowship, however, our church in Hawaii shaped our life. Our church became our family. I think what made the biggest impact was the emphasis that our church, under the leadership of an amazing pastor, placed on serving and showing God’s love to others. Whether we were loving on our church family, the families and students of the school where we met, the homeless all around the island, or the people of Vietnam… there were always ways to show God’s amazing love. We learned that church just isn’t where you worship on Sunday, it truly is what God designed to reach the lost in the world.
While we were there our small groups studied from the book, “Total Church” by Tim Chester and Steve Timmis. Great book that really explains the church as a community.
So, that’s my answer to the question, “what pleases Jesus?” I think it’s a community of believers who are seeking to reach the lost through showing them God’s love whether its in their town, city, country or across the world. A church who truly lives out the Great Commission. I saw a shirt for a Christian camp once and I think it said it best, ‘Love God. Love People.” I think it’s a simple statement but incredibly hard to do when we let other distractions get in our way.
I completely agree with Connie’s last statement… Start the change in me! It can start with us!
I think it’s a community of believers who are seeking to reach the lost through showing them God’s love whether its in their town, city, country or across the world. A church who truly lives out the Great Commission.
AMEN!
We’re military in Hawaii now! Mind sharing what church you were at?
Brandi,
We were at Harbor Church. They meet at Liholiho School in Kaimuki. I hope you get a chance to visit! Here’s their website: http://www.harborhawaii.org
Thank you. We’re in Aiea, looks like it’s about a half hour if there isn’t traffic. We’re happy where we are but we’ll definitely visit.
I’m gonna check out that book, Stephanie!
It’s easy to see why so many people in America struggle with Christians and the Church, and even though Keller has some amazing arguments about why it’s wrong to “demonize” the local church, I often find myself apologetic (which I don’t think Keller would have a problem with, per se) for many churches and Christians.
Even so, I remind myself that to give up on the local church just because it is made up of flawed individuals or flawed agendas is wrong. Jesus made the local church, with all of its failings and trappings, his bride. He was ALL about the local church, and he knew, more than anyone, how it would be abused. So, if I am about Jesus, I’ve got to be about the local church. They go hand-in-hand.
And, thankfully, I attend an amazingly healthy, amazingly God-focused, amazingly Bible teaching, amazingly worshipful church. I just finished a book called The Vertical Church , and I have to say that it gave voice to something I have felt for a long time without the ability to articulate… something that gets at the question about what would Jesus’ expectation for church be: Ultimately, I think that Jesus would want church to manifest the presence of God. Period. Everything else we deem important in church (helping others, evangelism, learning, worship, etc) is a by-product of corporately and frequently standing in the presence of God. I think—and I’m not trying to be combative, I promise… just trying to answer honestly—that any church that puts any of those other things first has the proverbial “cart before the horse.”
And, I think–when any church gets “out of balance” or somehow isn’t always about the manifest presence of God—there is potential danger of heading down the wrong path and mis-portraying God to the masses and to His people.
“that any church that puts any of those other things first has the proverbial “cart before the horse.”…yes!
I think that Jesus would want church to manifest the presence of God. Period.
Yes! And I think you’re right, everything else is a byproduct of this.
Great thought, Erin.
A people fully surrendered to Him – who are loving and being filled with His love in return – that is the source of ANY good we could ever “do” for the Lord. And the ‘doing’ is a by product of the loving… if the doing goes before the loving, it’s religion.
And we know how our Lord feels about religion…
I believe that our church “appears” to be a museum of saints, but is really a hospital for sinners. And I am a regular patient. In fact, I check in weekly for an exam (literally…an examination of conscience), and my appointment keeps my heart and my soul in total alignment!
I am a believer in church–the weekly (or daily) commitment, the worship, the gathering of praise…and the gift of receiving the Eucharist. I am in no way judging others who choose not to participate. Believe me, I lived almost my entire life without formalized religion in my life. I am simply saying that I can remember when going to church was “a chore” for me, and now it’s become such a blessing in my life…one that I need on a consistent basis, and one that gives me incredible peace each week. I don’t want to live without it! EVER!!!
I believe that a pleasing church in the eyes of Jesus would not be one of quantity, but rather one of quality. Since Jesus knows our hearts, I believe it would truly please him to see every heart open to receiving His words and His graces, regardless of the number of people in attendance. It would please him to read our minds and see only loving thoughts of others, truly embracing His commandment to love one another.
As youth leaders, we are always reminding ourselves that we’d rather have a handful of committed Christ followers rather than a roomful of wish-washies.
Like that!
So true. Reminds me of a memory verse we recently memorized:
“For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth to give strong support to those whose heart is blameless towards Him.” That handful of people committed, heart and soul, to Him is so much more important that numbers.
I agree that it does appear that way. How can we avoid this or breakdown this appearance? Is it inevitable?
Deborah…I think you hit it that it’s inevitable. Who wants to appear outwardly broken to others? Our human shame and insecurity wants us to hide the ugliness and make it appear differently. And from our human perspective, who can blame us? Afterall, others can have a tendency to be mean and judgemental. Thank God that Jesus loves us, brokenness and all, and despite our appearance!
I haven’t regularly attended church since my divorce(4 years ago). I tell people my ex got the church in our agreement! The truth is that I didn’t like the changes our church was making and how they were making them. I did feel like there were a lot of “saints” and not enough “sinners”. What would a church pleasing to Jesus look like? I think the t-shirt that Stephaine saw says it best…..”Love God. Love people.” One word Love.
When I met my husband we began looking around/shopping for a church near where we would live. One of the churches we visited definitely fell into the museum for the saints category and it was a big turn-off for us.
We now attend a church that is a bit further away located in the heart of the city. The congregation is very diverse in terms of race, nationalities, socioeconomic factors, and family lifestyles. The church is open during the week so folks in the city can have a place to pray and or warm-up (in the winter). We have average run-of-mill families; quite a few singles in their mid-20 to mid-30s; several gay couples and individuals; a really amazing state of the art choir and choir director that in addition to the regular church service also provides Evensong and Compline services once a week; and an active youth group. The one area our church is weak is with the godly play/Sunday school program, which I have always found interesting because the youth/teen program is fairly strong. A few parents have worked really hard with the Rector and the Sunday school program really started to grow this year. I think the upcoming year is going to be even better.
The church we attend also does quite a bit of outreach. We help provide food for the State homeless shelter and several times a year we collect items needed for a local family and children charity.
At this juncture, I am not as active in politics and running of the church as I have been in prior churches, so I have not heard much from the “Saintly” crowd, but it has long been my experience that most churches have their share. I say this fully acknowledging that everyone tends to have their own, “Saintly” moments in life. The bigger problem is when it is more of a personality trait (whether it be the personality of a church or an individual) rather than a moment.
I think any church where folks are offering their thanks and praise to Jesus for all our blessings and where folks are truly trying to improve their faith while lending a hand to others in need is pleasing to Jesus.
I have mixed feelings about this question. On one hand, the church is definitely not a museum for saints, and I wish that my church was more involved with our community than it is, because I think that Jesus’ heart for the poor and disenfranchised should be that of the church as well. On the other hand, all of the “hospital for sinners” work that Jesus and those in the church did mainly took place outside of church. My understanding of church is it should be where believers meet to worship God and encourage one another so that we can go out in the world and make disciples. So, while none of us is perfect, true believes should be getting closer and closer to following the mandates of scripture (though, as Keller points out, all do not have the same starting line), which includes personal holiness and helping and advocating for the spiritually and physically poor. There are clear mandates in scripture for church not being a place where unrepentant sin is tolerated or excused, and I think sometimes when people employ the “hospital for sinners” model in the church, they do so at the expense of Biblical church discipline.
I agree, Gina that I have mixed feelings about the question. It took me a second to wrap my mind around if the questions is referring to the church as in the body of Christ or the church as in the location and worship service.
I can certainly identify with being burned by church experiences, attending from the start as a baby. In my vast 🙂 33 years I have witnessed both beautiful and ugly, holy and very human. I confess that many of those “human and ugly” aspects were not insignificant to the transition to the church I am currently in. Yes, it has faults; but it is humble and fully accepting of God’s grace in our failings. We pray for our parishioners who are suffering, rejoice in their triumphs, give thanks to God for summer tomatoes, are challenged to serve our neighbor, and end each Sunday with: “Life is short and we haven’t much time to gladden the hearts of those who travel with us along the way; so be quick to love, make haste to be kind, and the blessing of God goes with us.”
Lovely blessing. And 33? You are just a spring chicken!
I would gauge that my church looks a little like a mix of museum and hospital. There’s two or three powerful ministries that help and love and give to “patients in a hospital.” I have overhead some comments from some that “those are the people” who are involved in so and so ministry. It stung. Even though I have limited experience with that particular ministry, I’ve heard and seen it be a function of healing people through God’s grace.
There is a part of me that thinks that God wants us all there. Even with negative attitudes and hurtful remarks, we’re all there to love God and we’re all going to fail at one time or another.
And don’t you find that when you come to grips with “we are all going to fail” your heart is filled with grace for others?
First, pretend I am on top of things this week (going back to respond to last weeks responses after this…it’s been that kind of busy week).
I don’t have much to add on this just one thing that stood out to me thinking about church. I have noticed that people tend to be much more real and let go of the saintly facade when they are online. Here, I can be honest and don’t have to worry about people judging me (even if you are I’ll never know) and I’m guessing that other people feel that way too. In person, a lot of times people don’t open up and pretend like they are perfect… that they only have the socially acceptable problems (such as lots of homework in a student setting) rather than all of the other problems they are facing.
This has nothing to do with the question, but it’s related to the chapter and what God has been putting on my heart lately, so I thought I’d share anyways. One of my friends recently shared an article about one of the recent cheerios commercials. In it (the commercial) there was a biracial family being all cutesy (it is a cheerios commercial after all). The article was about talking about how so many people were upset that there was a biracial family in it and that families “should all look alike”. I read the article and my heart literally broke…really there are people in this world that are not accepting of families made of different races. I sat there in disbelief and shocked. Especially, since I so desperately want to adopt and have a family that doesn’t all look like me. It sparked a conversation with my friend and she told me stories of her parents not wanting to get out of the car in certain towns since they would be essentially run out of town for not sharing the same race. That was running through my mind at the end of the chapter about how we as Christians need to be the ones to stand up for the people who are being marginalized. God’s been really putting that on my heart lately and I am praying that He shows me what He wants me to do to stand up for His people, because honestly I’m not really doing anything right now and that needs to change.
Love your honesty and transparency…even if it is online! Haha! I loved the end part of standing up for the marginalized. We have a nonprofit that addresses human trafficking and what we tell people who want to help is that any time you start serving a vulnerable population (and there are sooooo many) you are fighting against human trafficking because you are removing/addressing at least some of the vulnerabilities on which traffickers prey.
I”ve been hearing the Casting Crowns songs, “Jesus, Friend of Sinners” and this line keeps striking me:
“Nobody knows what we’re for only what we’re against when we judge the wounded” Love this. I think the whole song is a great anthem for what an authentic church should be. It fits the chapter nicely.
the phrase “judge the wounded” is so powerful
may we see others as Christ sees them
We are fortunate to be in a church that is reaching out in our community and “unleashing a revolution of love.” What we have found though, that it is not just doing the right things; it is more a matter of having the right attitude – having the right heart. What does “right” mean though? It stuck me while reading this chapter that it’s something that Sommerville referenced as the “other-regarding ethic” – completely thinking about others. I have had a few seasons in my life where I know what that feels like – and it is powerful and very freeing. However, my day to day actions revert back to selfishness each and every time. This chapter has made me re-evaluate what non-believers truly perceive from my life…
your words made me think of “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.” 1 Cr 13:1
“However, my day to day actions revert back to selfishness each and every time.” … isn’t it crazy to see how utterly selfish we are? how even when we do a “good” deed with a “pure” heart, we can become prideful afterwards and ruin it all? praise God that HIs love for us is so pure and peaceable and forgiving!
I am not sure why the link is gone this morning but here is my post.
http://tochinaandbackagain.wordpress.com
Hey I don’t know where the link went to add to my post so I thought I would post it here. I posted this morning. My blog site is http://www.tochinaandbackagain.wordpress.com I will check back later to see if the link is working again.
it works!
I feel like we are in a good church. They reach out to the community in many ways. The people within the church all seem genuine and to be loving people. However it seems that most of the peope are the same, as Stephanie mentioned. I don’t know if we have really been tested on people who are what may seem on the outside as “different”. I would like to say that it wouldn’t matter. In the past before my family started going to this church there was in fighting and people left the church due to disagreements. It really does seem sometimes that we are our own worst enemies. I however don’t feel our church teaches the Bible as Jesus would have wanted it. We are loving, but it seems that it isn’t taught as Jesus did, forgiving and loving, but not condoning. Jesus wants us all to live with him eternally and he is willing to forgive and love us all the way there, but he showed the path to get there. I have come a long way in my journey to God. Trying to change my own life has appeared at times to be judgemental. However I have learned and am still learning that love is the answer. I just read in Galatians 5:6 “What is most important is faith expressing itself in love”. I believe that any church that is loving and doesn’t get away from what the Bible teaches would be for everyone. I feel that this would bring deep faith that will withstand the good and bad and great love for God who loves us and saved us from all we have done, are doing, and will do if only we ask and believe. I struggle with my actions toward others, but know that growing closer to God will make things clearer and hopefully people will see God in me and want to learn of this peace and joy I feel in Him. Loving others at all times no matter who they are, what they are, whatever their behavior, and whereevery they may be in their own journey. As in an earlier comment, a church loving others, preaching, teaching, and living the gospel as we all journey to God would be wonderful.
The timing of this week’s question and topic is perfect!
My husband and I are currently in the middle of finding a church that we both can agree on.
We are newly weds still (less than 8 months of wedded bliss) and we knew when we were dating that finding a church home would be a challenge for us.
We come from very different backgrounds as far as our “church” experiences and are each looking for different things. I don’t want either of us to have to settle but I’m having a hard time believing that we will find something. We have been praying for the Lord’s guidance and direction. We want what HE wants for us.
The process of church “hunting” or “shopping” can be daunting so I pray that it will not be a lengthy time period.
Please keep our family in your prayers.
Thanks Ladies!
Laura, I pray that God will open your eyes to where He would have you connect to the body of Christ. My husband and I also are looking for different things in a church and although I continue to pray that God will open my eyes to where we “fit in” I have found myself sitting on the sidelines for many years. My husband goes to his safe place where he can simply walk in, sit down, listen to the sermon and leave having no connection with anyone. I stay home and use the quiet time to pray and read God’s word, but I feel so disconnected from the body of Christ. The adoption community has been the church for me lately, however I know that I need to get connected locally and am praying that once we get settled God will help me to step out and find a church family to grow with. I could use your prayers as well. Thanks!
Once again, I’m gobsmacked by the message in this chapter. Aside from rites of passage, I haven’t attended church for a very long time. Not even Christmas and Easter, because that seems hypocritical to me. Too long on doctrine & “you better do this or you’re going to hell” or “did you tithe 10%? We tithed 20% this year” (the museum for saints) and too short (at least in my opinion) on joy, I’ve avoided all of it.
I love the saying “…hospital for sinners, …museum for saints,” and think a church should be more the former. But in reading and re-reading, it occurred to me (OK, it smacked me upside the head), aren’t I just as judgmental in tarring all church members with the “Pharisees” brush as the “Pharisees” are in assuming I’m less than they because I don’t attend?
So, more personal insight…yay! More hard work and soul searching to determine what to do with that insight…sigh…